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  •    Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event  
     
    Tuesday, February 15 2005 @ 08:20 PM UTC
    Contributed by: David

    I need a new term.

    Or perhaps, the term already exists and I need someone to tell me about it.

    What I want to describe, using the conceptual shorthand of a single term, is a fairly simple idea—that there is a point where simulated life is undifferentiated from real life.

    More specifically, I want a name for that (possibly imaginary point) at which you can’t tell whether you are participating in a computational experience programmed on digital computers or whether you are living your nominal life.

    In the past I’ve approached this concept by talking about “The Matrix”. But there are two issues with that as a metaphor. One is that it the Matrix has all these distopian connotations that I don’t like. The other is that people always make fun of me when I bring up the Matrix in serious conversion.

    So, what do we call this reality-blurring point and why do I care?

    First, what to call it.

    There are so many good antecedents that we could use coin a new term: the Matrix point, the Holodeck line, the Cartesian Demarcation. Likewise, we could describe the point as Dickian on Lemesque. But I am inclined to refer to it as the Turing Event. This combines two perfectly combatable concepts into one. First, it recognizes that Alan Turing came up with the first general test of computer intellegence and real life blending—the Turing Test. So, it seems fair to extend his insight to describe a point at which artificial reality becomes indistinguishable from what passes as our present reality. Second, the term reaches into the science of black holes to point out than when approaching certain events you reach a point of no return. Once you cross over, the rules change. Life in a black hole isn’t like life on this side.

    Inside a Turing Event, you can’t tell whether you are inside or outside the event.

    Why does this matter?

    For one thing, it allows us to talk about the notion of “immersion” in more practical terms. As it is used today, immersion doesn’t mean much. Or maybe it means too much. I stood in front of a room of game scholars once and boldly claimed: “Saying a game is immersive is the same thing as saying it is cool.” Both terms are vague signs indicating that you really like something but don’t say anything as to why. Since the room of academics didn’t beat me to death later, I think there must be a nut of truth in there.

    If I defined a game’s immersiveness as a function of the Turing Event, then at least we know what we are talking about. We could say that immersion is fractional measure of the Turing Event. Or put it his way:

    I=T/If

    where I is the level of immersion, T is the Turing Event and If is the “immersion function”, or the specific method for measuring immersion.

    The closer the immersion function is to 1, the harder it is to distinguish the real from the simulated. When I=T, then you can’t tell whether or not you are in reality or in a simulation.

    (And as special implication of this proposed measure of immersion, there is a point where the Turing Event is more real than reality. No, I don’t know what that means. But if the immersion function calculates a value greater than 1, then you are hyper-immersed. And this, I suspect, is something that the guys who made the Matrix would get a kick out of.)

    This equation begs the question of how you calculate the immersion function. But at this point I am less worried about proposing a formula for that function than I am interested in pointing out that you can’t calculate immersion without a Turing event.

    Mathematical descriptions aside, I also want a the Turing Event term so I can talk about the difference between playing a game and not being able to tell you are playing a game. I want a nice, packaged concept for arguing with people about things like how “real” games are. When someone says, “Oh, this game is the most realistic game yet,” I want to be able to put that into a conceptual context, one that lets me think of these advances in game technology as orbiting some distance from the Turing Event.

    To use a specific example, when someone tells me that “World of Warcraft” is more realistic than the old Atari 2600 game “Adventure”, I want to be able to rebut that both are roughly the same distance from the Turing Event. That is, neither game really fools you for a second that you are inside a real place. They are just two types of fantasy. Structurally, they might have very different messages encoded in them. But it’s silly to think that people fall for either one as a real place.

    On the other hand, I’ve glanced at a television running a current version of Madden or NFL Y2K and thought for a moment it was real. The levels of mediated of reality aside, I think these examples are much closer to a Turing Event. Not close at all. But closer. They give you a sudden sense of reality that you have to tear yourself away from.

    As a conclusion of sorts, I want to define a Turing Event so we can stop pretending that we are loosing our grip on reality and start talking about how this new form of media is cooperating in our evolution, how videogames are as much a part of the post-digital human as the humans are a part of the games. Videogames, I think it is clear, are just a part of our reality, not replacing it, as the censors and violence Cassandaras worry.

    But this is not to say that we are not creeping closer to the Turing Event. While no chatter bot has passed the Turng Test, we have come close enough that it’s not hard to imagine that one day soon we will. We are close enough to a simulacrum of human intelligence that we cannot always reliably sort spam from earnest correspondence. Artists have fabricated images that have passed for real for hundreds of years. So, in the fine arts, we have reached the edge of the Turing Event. For now, I’m not worried about probing into the unreality of the black hole of a Turing Event. I just want to recognize that this point exists as a landmark we can use while charting this new media territory.

    So, can we call it a Turing Even? Or did someone already give it a better name?






     
             


    Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event | 29 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
    Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event
    Authored by: matt_censner on Tuesday, February 15 2005 @ 09:57 PM UTC
    I believe the term you may be looking for is: Precession of Simulacra.

    This term can be applied to much more than game-theory ofcourse, but the general concept of when the "artifical" simulates/surpasses "reality" and the two become indistinguishable is referred to as Baudrillard's Precession of Simulacra. You mentioned "The Matrix"; the Wachowski brothers made every actor read Baudrillard before filming and Baudrillard's book appears in the first act of the film.

    This is something I want to write more indepth about. But as to the "actual" breaking point so to speak, you may infact have the best term I can think of. I think you are looking for a concrete, dare I say, mathematical point, such as Terminal Velocity, and unfortunately I don't think we can ever get to a point to say 'this is where the artifical begins and reality ends'. The attempt to find the breaking-point becomes much more problematic when you factor that "reality" is steeped in human experience (which is not completely reliable). Just because the majority of the population can seperate "artifical" and "reality" with relative ease, there are many people deemed insane that cannot. That's said, I think trying to find a term for this is rather self-defeating.

    Games have just provided a new medium to argue the same old question that has been around since Plato. Hell, read Plato's anecdote about the man in the cave (found in Plato's Republic).

    I, myself, tend to believe that there is no difference between "reality" and "artifical". The way you interact in a MMORPG is just as reflective of who you are as the way you act in "the real world".

    With that said I'll leave you with this:

    The simulacrum is never which conceals the truth-it is the truth that conceals that there is none.
    The simulacrum is true.

    - Jean Baudrillard from 'The Precession of Simulacrum'
    [ Reply to This ]
    Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism
    Authored by: BlueGhost on Tuesday, February 15 2005 @ 11:10 PM UTC

    You appear to be combining immersion and realism.
    • Immersion is the level to which someones senses are fooled / distracted.
    • Realism is the level to which a simulation mirrors your perception of reality or acctual reality .

    Adventure might be quite realistic, but it's not very immersive.
    WoW is immersive but not realistic.
    Madden is quite immersive and quite realistic.

    The thing is the level to which something is realistic is subjective, if there was a TV show that looked just like WoW using real actors and special effects you'd probably mistake WoW for it. (assuming WoW was being played on the TV)

    Similarly the level to which something is immersive depends alot on the persons conditioning and the equipment used. If your only visual input was via a game of Adventure you'd probably be quite immersed in it.

    If I recall correctly theres already been a fair bit of experimental work on levels of immersion. Basically looking at the percentages of attention people normally pay to their Audio/Visual/Kinsthetic senses and the level of detail people can percive.

    Don't think there is as yet a good measure of how close a simulation is to someones perception of reality.

    Anyway, if you're going to bandy about phrases like:
    ...start talking about how this new form of media is cooperating in our evolution...
    I must ask, how is it cooperating? Can a non-aware artifact even be said to cooperate? How is it affecting our evolution? In what way does it act upon reproduction, mutation or selection?

    And if you're going to pull some maths out of the air and then extrapolate from it:
    ...But if the immersion function calculates a value greater than 1, then you are hyper-immersed...
    I really am going to have to call foul. The tagline for this website is 'Critical Videogame Theory' not 'Post-Modernist Vidio game BS'.


    Jms - BlueGhost
    [ Reply to This ]
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: matt_censner on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 04:06 AM UTC
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: BlueGhost on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 05:12 PM UTC
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: matt_censner on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 06:13 PM UTC
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: BlueGhost on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 06:43 PM UTC
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: David on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 09:09 PM UTC
  • Immersion and Realism and Post-Modernism - Authored by: matt_censner on Wednesday, February 16 2005 @ 10:05 PM UTC
  • Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event
    Authored by: CapCom on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 04:42 AM UTC
    Admittedly, a lot of this stuff with philosophy is way over my head as I have yet to get around to reading it (I'm still floating around in the naturalist and anthropological world of Loren Eiseley). So bear with me as I use some examples to better express my thoughts on all this.

    Let me bring a new term in here: addiction.

    Actually, the introduction of the term 'addicting' is also probably relevant to this as it goes along well with engrossment and immersion. When we say a game is 'addicting' we tend to mean you just can't stop playing the game - and like David said, an addicting game is just another term we apply to a 'cool game'. Take RTS games. It is easy to play games like Warcraft and Starcraft for hours and not realize it. You simply sit down, start building armies and fighting and before you know it, the afternoon is gone. These are some of the few games that I will actually sit down and play for that ammount of time and what's frightening is I don't even notice the time has gone by. With Warcraft, it's this train of thought that, 'Well, I just finished this mission and heck, might as well see what the objective is for the next one and while I'm at it what the map looks like and what the heck, why not see how tough it is, and man, I'm really flying through this one, might as well finish it, and well, I just finished this mission and...' You see how that works? And a lot of that is of course the little bits of micromanagement, resource control, and the like repeated over and over again like Tetris blocks that make you keep working at it without noticing other things. On top of that there is the blanket of an overlying story so we keep playing to see where we'll go next and what will happen there.

    With that in mind, here's the definitions I use for engrossment and immersion:

    Engrossment is more a deep interest or concentration in a subject, such as an engrossing book. Your mind becomes focused on the book and as with Warcraft, you can lose track of time while reading the book and you keep going to see what happens next or to hear the rest of the ideas presented and what they lead to.

    Immersion to me is more becoming engulfed in something, such as immersion in water: you become 'inside' whatever it is you are engaged in such that your senses tend to extend into this so you can feel like you're actually there.

    So I guess the next step would then be to ask 'how engrossing or immersive is Warcraft' and 'how much does engrossment or immersion play in addiction?'

    Of course, engrossment and immersion are quite similar and I suppose they can also tend to work together: they both engage or focus the senses on things outside the normal world. For instance, if you're reading an engrossing suspense novel about a murderer loose in a warehouse and it's storming outside, and all of a sudden someone starts sneaking up the stairs and opens the door, you get slammed right back into reality. It's startling because your senses have been engaged elsewhere and you are almost with the characters in the story in the warehouse with the murderer - you have become immersed in that world.

    But it's not the 'Turing Event' - you can certainly envision the warehouse and maybe the feel of the cold air, the dank, musty smell of the building and see the moonlight tracing through the window while clouds move shadows puppets across the walls... But it's not the same as if you were to step inside the building or in a virtual version of the building. And in all honesty, there are some things like this that I honestly wouldn't WANT to be there because there's a murderer on the loose :P

    I'd say about the closest we get to this type of 'Turing Event' are dreams: there are some that are so vivid we simply believe we are really there and it's shocking when we wake up and are thrust back into reality. And that can of course become disturbing.

    This leads to another thing I wanted to bring up: 'side effects' from games.

    Some games like Crazy Taxi or Katamari Damacy will start 'playing games with my mind' after I finish them. For instance, after one long bout of Katamari Damacy, I was thinking in terms of rolling a giant ball and sucking up everything in the room. I also think that perhaps Crazy Taxi should have a warning on it stating you shouldn't drive a vehicle less than a half hour after playing it - I found I had to concentrate more on the road than usual as I was still thinking somewhat inside the game (fortunately I didn't get into any accidents, but it was a little disconcerting. So yes, I suppose videogames ARE bad for you :P).

    While I would count this as another example of playing games too long (though I'd hesitate about Crazy Taxi as I had only been playing it less than 15 minutes), there does seem to be some aspects of the game that will linger in the mind at least for a time after play. But are the effects of these games the result of immersion? Or are they simply something akin to jackhammer's syndrome where the mind has sort of gotten into this loop or mode of thought where certain systems exist and the mind is still operating under these systems but has been thrown into a world where those systems are no longer applicable? (i.e. cars WILL become damaged if they hit something in the real world, unlike in Crazy Taxi, so you can't be reckless) I'd say in order to get a better idea of how immersion works in media and how to achieve these immersive effects we'd have to bring more psychology (probably 'physical psychology') into the mix.

    Of course, about five years down the road, we may all look back here and think either 'what a stupid idea - David was TOTALLY wrong!' or 'dang, he was right all the way, I can't believe we thought otherwise!' or probably more along the lines of 'you know, we were on the right track but we just didn't see it.' Personally, I rarely think we're ever absolutely right about anything, especially since ideas come and go in cycles so I'll be leaning more towards number 3. The idea is to take a look at this and get an idea for why it's important to study this kind of thing, how it works, and how that can be applied (and of course that immediate application is then to create the next Warcraft and make ourselves millions of dollars because we created an addictive - perhaps even immersive - game because we understood how to make one).

    ---
    "Until next time..."
    Captain Commando
    [ Reply to This ]
  • Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event - Authored by: matt_censner on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 02:05 PM UTC
  • Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event - Authored by: CapCom on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 03:27 PM UTC
  • Not Real At All: Defining the Turing Event - Authored by: matt_censner on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 06:29 PM UTC
  • yyy111 - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 17 2006 @ 02:28 AM UTC
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