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  •    The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game  
     
    Monday, May 03 2004 @ 09:47 PM UTC
    Contributed by: David

    Game TheoryPreviously, I asked, “What is the difference between a puzzle and game?”

    To better frame this question, and to get closer to the issues I want to resolve, I would like to propose the following puzzle, or maybe it is a game:

    Either define puzzle or game in such a way as the definition includes the other. Or, define both in such a way that they obviously exclude each other.

    This might seem horribly academic. But I think there are some good reasons to try to define these terms.

    It always seems fair to try and build technical definitions that can help frame discourse and discussion. There has been a healthy, ongoing, effort to define the term “game”. So, why not “puzzle”?

    If games and puzzles are arguably the same thing, then we have a reason to merge the discourse of both into the ludological field of study. If they are different, then we should respect that difference and not lump them together (as in the term “puzzle game” or like the old puzzle mag “Games”).

    To help focus this particular definitional effort, here are some games/puzzles that your definition(s) should accommodate:

    • Chess
    • Tony Hawk (any version – open-ended play, no clear victory condition)
    • Crossword Puzzles
    • Rubic’s Cube
    • Myst
    • Halo
    • Everquest
    • Solitaire
    • Mazes
    • Pinball
    This list is fairly arbitrary, but includes some of the games/puzzles that seem to cause trouble when it comes to classification and definition.






     
             


    The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game | 28 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
    The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game
    Authored by: C. Foust on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 03:13 AM UTC
    So much for the one line definition.

    A puzzle is a game which the player knows to be fully deterministic*. The player's challenge is to use a full understanding of the rules to formulate a procedure which will solve/win any instance of the game.

    The interface should also be discreet enough to forgive human error in execution of a strategy.

    *For practical purposes. Chess, for example, is theoretically deterministic: if both players play with an optimal strategy, one side will always win. Could chess be considered a puzzle?
    [ Reply to This ]
  • The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game - Authored by: David on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 09:19 PM UTC
  • The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game - Authored by: greglas on Wednesday, May 12 2004 @ 01:29 PM UTC
  • The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game
    Authored by: greglas on Wednesday, May 12 2004 @ 01:46 PM UTC
    Ian just posted this over at Watercooler -- from Will Wright:

    "When we sell games, we're selling problems for $40 a pop. And people buy them because they're fun to solve."

    He says games, but it sounds like he's talking about puzzles, doesn't it?
    [ Reply to This ]
    the art of puzzle games
    Authored by: clara on Thursday, April 14 2005 @ 12:09 PM UTC
    Puzzles are solitary pursuits, games are mostly competitive - tho' this can be an excuse for doing something enjoyable.

    Puzzles such as crosswords are training the mind to think in a way that is appropiate for games like chess.

    Puzzles are like kata and forms, games are like the actual battle, or whatever is being prepared for.
    [ Reply to This ]
  • the art of puzzle games - Authored by: David on Friday, April 15 2005 @ 03:39 PM UTC
  • the art of puzzle games - Authored by: eben on Sunday, April 17 2005 @ 03:15 AM UTC
  • the art of puzzle games - Authored by: dejanzie on Wednesday, June 01 2005 @ 09:49 AM UTC
  • The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game
    Authored by: beetle on Sunday, June 05 2005 @ 04:42 AM UTC
    A puzzle is something with resolution.

    A game is something to be experienced without expectation.
    [ Reply to This ]
    The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game
    Authored by: Mole2068 on Saturday, June 18 2005 @ 05:19 AM UTC
    What is the difference between a puzzle and a game?

    I believe that puzzles are a subset of games themselves. However it is difficult to truly prove that a puzzle is a game. Proving such a theory would require that every aspect of a puzzle would also be an aspect of game itself. Due to the complex nature of man and his creative sense, I believe it impractical to try to prove such a theory.

    However, You may notice that both puzzles and games have a similar definition. They are both used as entertainment, they are both challenging in nature and they both have short term and long-term goals.

    I believe that puzzles differ from the general form of games in that puzzles are designed specifically for a person to solve them; games do not necessarily need to be solved.

    [ Reply to This ]
    The Puzzle/Game Puzzle Game
    Authored by: Mole2068 on Saturday, June 18 2005 @ 07:14 AM UTC
    After some thought I believe I have found a way to prove that a puzzle is in fact a game. In order to do this I must first define what a game is.

    If we take a look at how games are played, the definition becomes obvious. Games are a form of entertainment in which one or more people, the players, try to complete one or more goals under a specific set of rules. Each player is given some kind of information and is asked to react to that information in some way while adhering to the given set of rules. This process of receiving information and reacting to it is repeated until either:

    1) One or more players completes their goal(s)
    2) One or more players fails the meet their goal(s)
    3) The player(s) stop playing the game.

    Hence, a game is a form of entertainment where one or more people continually react to the information that they are given. These reactions are chosen by the player(s) in order to achieve one or more goals while adhering to a specific set of rules.

    The big question is... can the same definition be applied to puzzles? Yes, puzzles are a form of entertainment. Yes, puzzles require the player to continually react to the information given in order to fulfill a goal (solving the puzzle) under a specific set of rules.

    Indeed, assuming that my definition of a game is accurate, a puzzle is one form of a game.
    [ Reply to This ]
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